I would love to know what we could do. We going to tell our troops to shoot children? We going to send money and supplies over there that corrupt officials are going to take for themselves? We going to form a stupid hippie drum circle and do nothing? Seriously, it has been going on forever and now is the time to care? It is all pointless.
Michael Reid Terrible idea. Let the corruption, disease, and crime eat away at itself while Africa's nations take up democracy and mercantilism. Time heals. War doesn't. Take Iraq for example; sure, we went in there, and things slowly improved when we were strong there, but the second we pull out, the country regresses. You can't force change on a people.
Evan Jay-Walka Coleman nobody is trying to force change on anyone. We are trying to catch a war criminal! I agree with Michael, better late than never. It's about time Americans started caring for something other than themselves. This is what humanity is about. This man must be stopped, plain and simple.
Stacey Blitzer One war criminal... among literally thousands of war criminals, war profiteers, and warlords in Africa. Kony got press, but he isn't the only one, or the worst one, not by a long shot. And moving our Armed Forces into a foreign country /is/ imposing change. It would pose a serious threat to the fragile state of balance that the UN has worked hard to establish in the monarchistic and anarchistic countries of Africa.
But yes, Joe Kony must be stopped. Really, they all ought to be stopped. But we shouldn't be butting into their cultural and political dynamic to be the one stopping him/them. If you want change, and not some other warlord to step up in his place, the people of Uganda need to resist him themselves. Best you can hope to do is help them, and neither moving our men there, nor giving money to a related organization would do anything of the sort.
Evan Jay-Walka Coleman so hey if we can't do it ALL, then we do nothing. Nice attitude. And it isn't about Uganda, chances are he isn't even still IN Uganda, like the LRA, has moved on. What would have happened if we had taken this stance with Osama? Or hussein? One at a time is all we can do. Typical NIMBY syndrome. At least the invisible Children are proactive and they should be commended for it, whether you think its a waste of time, apparently the American government does not.
Stacey Blitzer Osama's a poor example of your point, since he seemed perfectly content living in his mansion for the years before we found him and put a bullet in his head. Hussein was a classic Hitler case of leadership-under-duress: organized his country beautifully, using discriminatory genocide and fearmongering as tools. /He was deranged/.
NIMBY Syndrome is a made up word for a fatalistic mentality. But the fact is that we have no control over events in Africa, unless we're endowed with wonderful leadership skills, a truly vast sum of money, and a disregard for local culture. (If you want an example of this behavior, you might look up Anne Heyman's work regarding the founding, funding, and expansion of Agahozo village, in South Africa.) Otherwise, you should know well the lack of impact you have in Africa, as you scarcely have an impact on the government of the country you actually dwell in.
And out of curiousity, do you know how much of the money that goes to Invisible Children is actually applied to the cause? A negligible 32%. The rest is devoted to their incredible media and cinematography skills, their social advertising, and their funding of war groups in Africa. Productive? I think not.
Stacey Blitzer On a related note, if you're interested in NIMBY Syndrome, you might want to look at Kotov Syndrome. A similar phenomena, and one that applies as well, save where the only effective action is inaction. Not to mention that Africa is quite literally /Not In Your Backyard, nor anywhere near it/.
Jared Byers The holocaust. 'Cept America wasn't the one turning their backs. We didn't have intelligence of the camps until two months before D-Day. You want to know who turned their backs, it was the German people, giving up anarchy and poverty and a vibrant, growing culture in exchange for leadership, dominance, and revenge. You could look back on it and say we should have acted sooner. But we didn't know.
And really? Relating yet another upstart Ugandan warlord to Adolf Hitler? Not a deft comparison.
Evan Jay-Walka Coleman I don't know about you, but I happen to live on earth, and when it comes to humanity, everywhere is my backyard. And when I see your name up in lights with something better to offer, then I will believe you are actually doing something about it. Until then, I will support those that do their best instead of just sitting on their asses crying about what should and should not be.
I hate to point this out, but Utah's one of the United States, so it's not really comparable to Uganda, a country in Africa... on that note, where's Suriname? (without looking it up) That's on our half.
Ben Miller Actually it is. See, we have don't have as many countries on our half of the world. Instead we have small states and territories. The Eastern Hemisphere has a fuck load of small Countries as opposed to states. So the comparison is legit. Suriname is in Northern South America, North-Eastern section right around Brazil, if I'm not mistaken. And I didn't look it up.
Neil Kan Kabat Nice. Yeah, that's kinda true. But I don't want to think I should keep all the Provinces of Canada memorized, and, no offense to meant to the country, to hell with learning Mexico's partitions, whatever they call them (are they "states"? I want to say so, but I don't know).
Ben Miller It's just funny when people from Europe get all high and mighty about being in the know about geography, when the only reasoning behind it is the fact that their countries are only 5 miles wide. Do I know where shit is around me? Yes. But because we call ours states, I'm an idiot and he's a genius... ya right.
Neil Kan Kabat You know, there's a big difference between states and sovereign countries. They do get a little more time to work on them in school because they're not using time learning as many partitions of their own country, like the four that make up the UK. But it's not like someone in the UK gets the experience of moving around the land to really know the area like a local (except maybe during caravan season). I get that it's a silly generalization of Americans, but in general, most don't know their geography very well, whereas, in general, many Europeans do.
Neil Kan Kabat YOU don't care, thx for admitting that. Fortunately there ARE those that DO care. Besides, I'm pretty sure most Ugandans don't care about you either. Welcome to humanity, such a small world, such BIG walls that are built by ignorance and selfishness.
Stacey Blitzer Those who DO care are called non-profits. If you care so much, donate, but don't suggest that others should have their tax dollars wasted on another silly overseas war when we still need to use those taxes to take care of people at home. Americans are dying of starvation, but oh, we better save some African children!
Ben Miller some people choose to have their mission field at home some choose abroad, who are you to say one is right and one is wrong? But to say its a futile wasted effort is just wrong, maybe to you, but not to others. And uneeding to display my personal life, I DO support overseas missions. AS WELL as those at home.
Ben Miller so now ur powerless because the gov't has no money? The people have the money but they're too damn greedy with their cars and houses and boats and holiday trips to third world countries to take pictures and cry about the state of humanity while sitting on their fat asses munching goodies and drinking wine. Can you say hypocrisy?
Ben Miller I realize the difference between a state and a sovereign state. European's know geography because they have to. They travel for 20 minutes and they are in another country. If they lived here, they would still have a pretty good lay of the land but they wouldn't need to know things as in depth as they do in Europe. My point is that the only reason they are as good at geography is because countries are smaller in Europe AND in when comparing the 20 countries in their area to 20 states in ours, the knowledge of general surrounding will be about the same between an EU and an US.
Stacey Blitzer You voted for Obama didn't you? Moron. You're right. People may have the money. I bet you've got tons of it! Go sell your car and house and worldly possessions to help that kid in Uganda. I personally have a son to feed and don't have the luxury to naively believe that if I help some African country that somehow my son will still have food in his belly. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say your are about 21 maybe 22... probably younger even. I bet you can't even vote. Nor do you pay taxes. Shut up now. You are beginning to look very stupid in front of the well educated.
Ben Miller My point exactly. LETS GO SAVE THE STARVING CHILDREN IN UGANDA! We adopt hundreds of kids from foreign countries every year. Meanwhile the children born in America with no parents or homes that literally cost fractions less to adopt, sit in poverty and starve. To DEATH. Yet because Kony is on some hipster Youtube channel I'm supposed to pretend to give a shit? I'm sorry, I do this moronic thing called THINKING and it stops me from giving into the independent non-conforming masses.
Stacey Blitzer Here's an idea, why don't you tally up all the money you could possibly throw at this, and do two things.
First, whittle it down to the 32% that Invisible Children would use directly, and take off of that the shipping, handling, purchase, tax, and distribution fees, and see how much all that money of yours would actually do.
OR, you could just compare the sum of all your money to the cost of moving our armed forces into Uganda and pursuing conflict with a warlord. Or hell, just figure out how many soldiers you could equip with that money. Then come tell us whether or not its a futile and wasted effort, hm?
If it makes it any easier on you, outfitting a single soldier for combat costs $17500, plus specialized gear, rations, ordinance, equipment, lodgings, transportation, supporting vehicles, telecommunications, and command support. That, for 90,000 soldiers or more. With the national debt at 15.5 trillion dollars.
you both talk alot of hot air with little knowledge. Nice try. I am in my 30's I vote, I pay taxes and I support a family as well as missions both at home and overseas. FYI, I did NOT vote for Obama as I am not currently a US citizen. I don't follow the masses, I think for myself and you sir have just proved the generale american citizen that thinks like you to be quite ignorant and hypocritical and full of nothing but well, pure bullshit. But thanks for the attempt at psychoanalyzing me, better luck next time. Supporting efforts in other countries does not meanI ignore the needs staring me right in the face at home, if you believe that then you really are as dumb as you look. And until I see YOU getting off your fat ass and saving those at home and abroad, you have nothing worthwhile listening to or responding to. So go on your soapbox and preach from your couch I don't care, someof us actually HAVE lives. Helping causes in other lands doesn't mean my children starve dumbass, and sending troops to catch this asshole doesn't mean we are allout at war hellbent on killing anything that moves. I'm not naive or stupid, I know history and I know governments. But I also know that the attitude "its futile" only shows your own arrogance and pride and lack of caring for humanity. It's not all world peace, its justice, ONE STEP at a TIME.
Evan Jay. Time does heal all wounds but corruption just begats more corruption. Better to go in while we still have bigger guns. I know Kony isn't the only problem meaning those people need us more than ever.
It surely does. But that same corruption is what the UN has been working to dissipate, diplomatically and successfully, for years. Moving troops there would be a step forward while we're there, maybe. We pull them out, and the country will regress. Same as what's happening in Iraq. It's not a permanent resolution, and it would almost definitely cause more bad than good. But it's good to hear you're not taking Kony as the sole threat to world peace. He is, after all, only a symptom.